You are here

Discuss: Three fantasies

Some comments showed up at Facebook about the two Fantasy Heartbreaker essays, and I'm a little tired of facepalming. It's been a long road of experiencing and reflecting upon what became of fantasy during my lifetime, and the original essays are a blink of a moment during that process. Let's see what the long view might hold.

I did a little essay with the briefest possible introduction to three terms; D&D fantasy, fantasy heartbreaker, pink slime fantasy. You can rightly imagine me veering off into subroutines and explanations and whatnot in each case, then deciding to start over. More than once.

So, here are some nuances – think of them as what you might hear when listening at the door of each term.

  • D&D fantasy: sequential tournament modules like the Giants series don’t count; the R series from Mentzer’s award-running run at RPGA do (and as implied in the video, are practically definitive); the A series is an important indicator because the tourney versions were converted into “saga” versions for publication.
  • Also for D&D fantasy, Dragonlance and The Forgotten Realms are arguably the ur-examples, but they are so explicitly crossed-over that I’m more interested in the more diffuse examples that were not designed and marketed as such. In other words, if D&D fantasy weren’t already happening, then DL and FR might not have been implemented.
  • Fantasy heartbreaker: most of them try to “fix” D&D without succeeding; by contrast, most OSR publications avow not to “fix” D&D but often succeed. Also, games of both types often inadvertently become something good on their own which is not identifiable with the acknowledged or implied source game or assumptions of play.
  • Pink slime fantasy: the term “vanilla” keeps coming up in discussion, but that term is stupendously bogus. There is no vanilla fantasy, e.g., Lord of the Rings, Prydain, Narnia, The Worm Ouroboros, and The Broken Sword are metal as hell, and metal itself wouldn’t even exist if it weren’t for Burroughs and Howard. I stomp on its inclusion.

The economics are very helpful in understanding the differences. Fantasy heartbreakers are utterly marginal, being the unwanted fringe within a fringe cottage industry; pink slime fantasy is the outcome of hyper-mass promotion and marketing at an economic level way above the “weight” of formerly-known fantasy content; and D&D fantasy is an odd side-effect of gamers writing novels +  novels serving as the procedural model for play.

If you don’t have Circle of Hands, then I’m a little worried about the heartbreaker discussion because you aren’t seeing my reflections on the original essays. If you do have it but skipped that chapter because “it’s not the game,” peek at it a bit, I beg you. Oh, and although I hadn’t hit upon the term yet, the Naked Went the Gamer essay is all about (anti) pink slime.

Venning is irresistible and at least possibly historically necessary to discuss, so let me try a couple, including a couple of non-overlaps for comparison:

  • Pink slime fantasy by itself: The Sword of Shannara, especially later installments (yes, there is a further overlap here with pastiche, but not all pastiche is syncretic/homogenized, which Shannara is)
  • D&D fantasy + pink slime fantasy: The Iron Tower trilogy, The Wheel of Time
  • Fantasy heartbreaker + D&D fantasy: most of the games mentioned in the essays, but most uncompromisingly in Fifth Cycle, Forge: Out of Chaos, and Deathstalkers
  • D&D fantasy by itself: God Stalk

The Finding D&D posts and videos are a big deal here too, but they'd be involved as a fourth issue, not as a subset to any of these three.



Gordon C's picture

This pass at the discussion made me realize - the processing-to-pink-slime thing happens in many ways. At the moment, it's making entire sense to me to say I've read a HELL of a lot of pink slime ERB (Edgar Rice Burroughs). You can make a case that some later ERB is itself pink slime ERB. And yeah, "good" or not - that really depends. I certainly enjoyed some reading some of these, and regret wasting time on others.

More to say on D&D Fantasy for sure, but not today.

Ron Edwards's picture

I agree, there are many ways to pink slime, or rather, depending on the multiple points of origin, lots and lots of things that happen to creative work, or its ongoing production, go toward it. In one of my design curriculum videos, I talk about two fantasy authors (one mediocre, one all-time great) whose shorter work was extended through contracts and editor pressure into longer versions, and arguably, diminished ones.

I'm mostly interested in what's done with it rather than how it got that way. To continue with the meat product analogy, the most urgent questions concern its distribution, marketing, and above-all its reception into normalized status, because, once that's occurred, new/later production doesn't start with its own point of origin at all, but instead dips into the vat as if it were the point of origin.

Here's probably the most important point about that: because anyone can create magnificent fantasy from anything, pink slime included. Theoretically. Perhaps even historically, if we were to examine the highly-massaged British processing of Greek and medieval fantasy into palatable 19th-century empire form, and then see what weird/isolated Brits and spunky American pulp-scribblers were to do with it a generation later.

But that "can," i.e., the possibility or capability, bobs in a sea of "not," i.e., we are inundated with pink slime, the more so because it is so evidently the source to make more of itself, as if the vat now had generation/regeneration powers. Uniquely so? Maybe.

That's my laser-point of focus if the discussion could ever manage to arrive there from all the defensive tumult. First, whether the twentieth-century innovations and sophistications of making the slime were and are simply too powerful now for that to occur (the gloom and doom, "not like the old days" question). Second, if it's happening, where, because it would definitely be under our noses but utterly missed for what it is, because that's how it always works.

Gordon C's picture

"Second, if it's happening, where, because it would definitely be under our noses but utterly missed for what it is, because that's how it always works." I think the "it" in "if it's happening" is "magnificent fantasy from anything, pink slime included" - is that right?

If so - man, I want some answers there! My own list is very, VERY slim and contains all-too-many caveats.

The first question ... well, the forces are incredibly powerful. That needs acknowledgement, and maybe some analysis. TOO powerful to overcome at ALL? I'm going to assume "no", just to remain sane.

Ron Edwards's picture

I think the "it" in "if it's happening" is "magnificent fantasy from anything, pink slime included" - is that right?


Add new comment